I's be interested in hearing how you feel about porn now...
I am morally opposed to it...have strong beliefs about it--even before the SA thing hit (my H. w/ on-line porn...thank God it never advanced further)... HE actually thinks it's morally wrong...& he is doing really well in recovery & has over 1 year of sobriety...
although we have a long way to go...married for 21 years...

For a long time I thought I wasn't an eloquent, forceful enough feminist, because I couldn't seem to make him see that it was up to ME to decide what my sexual mood was. But, he didn't want me to decide. The nature of his addiction is all all all about control. He never advanced past the centerfold picture stage and 3 or 4 trips to strip clubs, but it was enough for him. He could decide blonde, brunette, redhead; the time of day; the room lighting and temperature. He could pick which lube made him happiest and what angle. He could decide everything from the soundtrack to the bush motif.

Me? I'm a crap shoot. Even though I am the same woman he has known intimately for 15 years, with the same hygiene (clean and cute) and the same pillow talk (dirty), I'm willful. I am a woman. And that is too much for that insecurely internalized 13 yr old boy to handle sometimes. If I am really horny, I have to pretend like nothing is out of the ordinary and spur spontaneity surreptitiously. (50 point phrase!!)
Sometimes it just isn't worth the game to me. On the other hand, he doesn't really initiate either. Again, the 13 yr old who can't hit on the chick in the college bar. The funny thing is that we are very affectionate with each other. Tons of PDA and genuine lovie-dovieness. So we look for spontaneity or else suffer a whole lot of suggestive commentary and know there will not be any follow through.

Well, THAT was a huge chunk of TMI. I do appreciate how much you are willing to divulge in your blog. The details, especially of "recovery-the early years", are sadly relatable to so many of us. This bit of the compassionate-addict-only-acting-out-as-a-favor-to-us is brilliant stuff.

Thanks for bringing up the question of pornography. I do have a somewhat different take on it now and there are some ideas I would like to explore, but I'd like to flesh those thoughts out in a full post. I have actually been intending (as Velvet Verbosity knows) to do a post on porn for some time, and this reminds me that I ought to do it sooner rather than later.

However, I don't think I can clear up your confusion. You are viewing my world through the lens of your own experience, as I am viewing you through mine. And we are in different enough places -- with different enough experiences, values and beliefs -- that I don't think I can bring this experience of mine to you in a way you can relate to right now.

~MPJ

I have a similar attitude towards promiscuity. I have been promiscuous in the past when I was going through a youthful, experimental phase, but I don't really understand people who never grow out of that. Again, it's not a moral judgement here, but rather an aesthetic one! There are just so few people out there that I actually want to fuck that I find it kind of desperate when somebody has such low standards. It's the sexual equivalent to eating a huge bag of nasty American or British chocolate (yuck! So nasty!) when you hold out for one delicious, exquisite Belgian truffle!

I myself am not "ok" with porn, but I didn't come to this realization for many many years and only after buying into the party line that "all guys look" and that is was "harmless fantasy" and so forth. I also looked at porn myself a few times over my lifetime, and even though in some ways I didn't feel all that great afterwards, I didn't really make a connection to the porn itself, but more to shame because I was a "woman" and this was a "guy" thing. Whatever. I do think the large majority of it is harmful, but there are degrees of porn and people mean different things when they use the word. I tend to mean the hard stuff that depicts the degradation of women.

As a feminist, I'm not fond of too much soft-porn either, but I have seen other country's soft-porn and find it very low on the offensive to women scale. There's something about the expression on the women's faces in Italy as compared to America that doesn't upset me, and in fact makes me feel more empowered, strong and beautiful.

We are all human beings, trying to find our way in a complex, confusing, and too-full-of-choices world. I admire MPJ for her honesty, her clarity, and her willingness to share her truths with us vulnerably. What purpose does attacking her for past choices make?

There are all kinds of ways to be in loving relationships. There are people (and I have met them) that have "open" or polymonogamous relationships. When I first heard about such things I scoffed and thought it was just a glorified way of cheating, and the people must be bent in the head to think that this was anything within reach of being called love. Then I met a few people who have these types of relationships. Some were messed up, sure, but no more than what? The 50% of married couples? One couple I met at college had a much more advanced, nurturing, and enlightened relationship than most monogamous couple I've known. They stressed communication, honesty, nurturing, and listening. NOTHING happened in their relationship without honest communication, and when mistakes were made...first thing? Communication.

The point is, I don't know where MPJ stands right now on pornography, but if at any time she was ok with it, she was either right for her situation, or misguided in retrospect, but that decision was and is up to her. The most destructive component to this relationship was its secrecy and lies, and that is the focus here.

Have you seen your part in allowing/indulging in porn in the marriage?

I'm very confused here...I understand your being hurt he was hiding stuff from you...but most wives I know devestated to learn their husband was involved in secret on-line porn viewing alone, had no idea & never thought it was okay...